[NCLUG] Debian Question

David Braley davbraley at comcast.net
Fri Jan 4 12:24:13 MST 2008


Warning!!! I am a bit grumpy, so I might sound like I am trying to pick 
a fight!

Sean Reifschneider wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 03, 2008 at 05:42:40PM -0700, David Braley wrote:
>   
>> Linux getting so Huge? And why does it take so damn long to boot up? Is it 
>>     
>
> As more functionality is added and people expect more from their systems it
> can require more code running to meet their needs.  For example, if you
> think your system gets into X fast, convert over to runlevel 3 and boot --
> even faster.  What do you need X windows for, you have screen and multiple
> virtual consoles...
>   
You are sooooo funny. I wonder how surfing the net would look from a 
system with no X?
> My feeling is that people are willing to trade off more functionality for
> more boot time, especially if you're only booting once a week or maybe even
> less often.  Sure, I could gain a second in my boot time by disabling
> Postgres, for example, but I use it...  Ditto for a firewall, which Debian
> is willing to not call a part of a base system, but I am not.
>   
Makes sense. Feature creep is a problem with a lot of software packages 
as well. But it makes me feel that Linux is still not focused on people 
other than the high-powered computer person. This of course is not a bad 
thing. Hell, I could always roll up my sleeves and create my own Linux 
distro that is similar to what I am using now.

I am going to make a guess that anyone capable of rolling out his/her 
own distribution of Linux, is not going to even remotely resemble the 
run of the mill desktop computer user. So that individual is going to 
throw at this new shinny distro tons of stuff that is only needed by its 
creator, or someone like them. I don't think at my present level of 
skills that even "I" could be objective enough to create a Linux 
distribution for the common user.

There are some great and solid light weight distro's out there already. 
Xbuntu, Puppy, Fluxbuntu, DamnSmall..... are all really good systems. I 
have even used them on other peoples machines. But interestingly enough 
(with the exception of DamnSmall, which I consider unusable for lack of 
updates) all of those small distro's are still much larger than what I 
have now on my system and need.

A good example of an un-needed package for the desktop is ssh. I know 
most people on this list could not live without ssh. But I can bet you 
if I walk into a crowd, say at a movie theater or a mall, and started 
asking people, "So tell me, how do you like using ssh at home on your 
computer?" The most common response will be "ss what?" The tool ssh is 
only one of hundreds of examples of what I mean. It is also a common 
security risk on machines of people who don't use it.

> If you want a system that "just works", you're going to need it to be
> running stuff that you might want, because otherwise you'll have to fiddle
> to get it running.
>   
That is not true! Very few groups are making a version of Linux that is 
for the common desktop computer user, like a Windows user, or a Mac user 
(Is it possible that Mac is the only group making something that is 
close to Linux for the desktop?). Oh, and if you haven't noticed, I am 
going to guess they represent 95 percent of the desktop computer users 
in the world. That is a lot of users.

Please don't get me wrong. Linux is fantastic! It has been my primary 
desktop for many years and I CHOOSE to use it. But this cool thing 
called Linux will never go main stream on the desktop until someone 
rolls one that has almost nothing in it. Then the power of Linux can let 
the person add what they want as they grow and learn.
> In the normal case, my system boots faster than your system fires up grub.
> >From being off to having all my applications running and ready for me to us
> takes around 2 seconds.  If you're impatient, as you said, you need to
> learn about suspend.  So I don't care about the once a week boot taking 2
> minutes when the boot I do several times a day takes 2 seconds...
>   
You are right. I am skilled enough to figure out how to use suspend. I 
know it can be used on desktops, not just on laptops. *sound of rolling 
up sleeves* I wonder how fast a Linux machine can be booted into an X 
environment.

Take care all!

David





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