[NCLUG] Re: Thoughts on Linux Users

[Jim Bragonier]

nclug-request at nclug.org wrote:
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: What is a Linux User? (Brian Wood)
>    2. Re: What is a Linux User? (ycsapo)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:02:54 -0700
> From: Brian Wood <bwood at beww.org>
> Subject: Re: [NCLUG] What is a Linux User?
> To: Northern Colorado Linux Users Group <nclug at nclug.org>
> Message-ID: <473492BE.1020103 at beww.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Paul Hummer wrote:
>> This week, Chad started thread about entitled "local end-user support"
>> that asked the question "Is there any local linux end user support?"
>> This got me thinking about the nature of Linux (and *BSD) users, and why
>> some "normal" computer services are not available to Linux users.  Is it
>> because the business world doesn't completely acknowledge Linux as a
>> viable OS?  Is it because people who use free software are poor, or just
>> stingy with their money?
>>
>> There are many corporate services available for Windows desktop users
>> that aren't necessarily *easily* available to Linux users.  One of these
>> is Geek Squad's online backup.  While it's possible to backup up your
>> Linux system to their online backup server, the process is VERY
>> Windows-centric (and not really something my grandma would do).
>> However, as an everyday Linux user (since 1998...), I've found solutions
>> that work for me, like buying hardware and setting up my own backups,
>> inside the LAN and off-site.  That just seems to be my nature.  An
>> elementary example at best, but one that proves my point.  There is so
>> specific Linux setup tool for the online backup.
>>
>> I guess what I'm getting at is, what is the "nature" of a Linux/*BSD
>> user?  I've thought about those of you I've encountered at Hacking
>> Society or the NCLUG meetings.  Some of them are minimalists, opting for
>> the window manager with 8 desktops, each running a terminal.  Others are
>> running full blown Gnome with every possible Compiz Fusion plugin
>> imaginable.  Some use Evolution, while others opt for fetchmail and
>> mutt.  Are Linux users "hackers" in the sense that they solve problems
>> themselves, or are they just really lucky to have great systems?  What
>> is it really that makes a Linux user tick?
>>
>> I look forward to your insights.
>
> Certainly a Linux user (or most of them) (by your definition) is more
> knowledgeable about computers than most Mac or Windows users (though
> there are certainly very sharp folks who use Win/Mac at home, and it is
> hard to sell somebody a "service" that they can perform themselves.
>
> It's hard to sell a professional auto mechanic an oil changing service
> (though there may be some who just don't want to bother).
>
> I don't think you really save any significant money by running Linux,
> what you do save on the OS and proprietary software probably gets spent
> on additional hardware (at least in my case).
>
> Many Linux users work with computers in some way at their jobs, or have
> in the past, or learned some Unix variant in school.
>
> Many are just contrarians, such as myself. They just don't like doing
> things the usual way. It's not that I don't have the $$$ to send Bill
> Gates, but I think the last thing he needs is my money.
>
> Linux is, to many, a superior product, but perhaps in the same way that
> a racing car is "superior" to my pickup truck. I wouldn't want to see
> everyone driving indy cars to the market.
>
> Linux can provide a superior product for some applications. My MythTV
> system blows away any commercial PVR/DVR system, but I'd be the first to
> admit it's not the best answer for a lot of consumers.
>
> If I had to sum up the difference between Linux and Win/Mac users
> succinctly I'd say it was 3 things: Awareness, ability and need, and the
> latter might well be just a "need" to be different in some way.
>
> I suspect most Linux users on this list would fall into the "hobbyist"
> category in some way, even if they make their living with Linux.
>
> (And yes, this was written on a Mac, I love the display, but It's
> sitting between two Linux machines and connected to them via VNC and
> SSH. The only Windows install I have is under VNC, I need it for some
> proprietary hardware that has only Windows drivers (Blackberry and an
> OBDII reader/programmer).
>
> beww
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:52:29 -0700
> From: ycsapo <ycsapo at mines.edu>
> Subject: Re: [NCLUG] What is a Linux User?
> To: Northern Colorado Linux Users Group <nclug at nclug.org>
> Message-ID: <4734904D.5060708 at mines.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I can only speak for myself, of course. Maybe I'm not exactly a hacker
> in the sense you propose, but I'm certainly a tinkerer. I won't go into
> the "Linux in the corporation" side of this (although that is a big part
> of what I do), but from a personal point of view:
>
> (Please keep in mind that I moved to this country ~5 years ago and some
> of the things I do/did/learn might not apply to "natives")
>
> - When my garbage disposal stopped working, it took me a couple of hours
> but I took it apart myself (having never seen one before), found the
> problem and fixed it.
>
> - I taught myself some basic dry-walling so I could add a "wood niche"
> to the wall beside my fireplace.
>
> - When I got tired of the carpet I had, I removed it and installed hard
> wood floors by myself (well, my wife helped :), learning a lot in the
> process.
>
> - I change the oil and do minor maintenance to my own car.
>
> - I installed my own garage door opener.
>
> So that's the pattern I guess. I like the fact that I can do most of
> what I want on my computer without asking somebody and without having to
> worry about licensing. The freedom Free/Open Source software provides is
> unparalleled. I can go as far as I want (and am capable of), all the way
> to the intricacies of some driver or kernel module. Without having to
> ask anyone, did I mention that already?
>
> Yuri
>
> Paul Hummer wrote:
> > This week, Chad started thread about entitled "local end-user support"
> > that asked the question "Is there any local linux end user support?"
> > This got me thinking about the nature of Linux (and *BSD) users, and why
> > some "normal" computer services are not available to Linux users.  Is it
> > because the business world doesn't completely acknowledge Linux as a
> > viable OS?  Is it because people who use free software are poor, or just
> > stingy with their money?
>
> > There are many corporate services available for Windows desktop users
> > that aren't necessarily *easily* available to Linux users.  One of these
> > is Geek Squad's online backup.  While it's possible to backup up your
> > Linux system to their online backup server, the process is VERY
> > Windows-centric (and not really something my grandma would do).
> > However, as an everyday Linux user (since 1998...), I've found solutions
> > that work for me, like buying hardware and setting up my own backups,
> > inside the LAN and off-site.  That just seems to be my nature.  An
> > elementary example at best, but one that proves my point.  There is so
> > specific Linux setup tool for the online backup.
>
> > I guess what I'm getting at is, what is the "nature" of a Linux/*BSD
> > user?  I've thought about those of you I've encountered at Hacking
> > Society or the NCLUG meetings.  Some of them are minimalists, opting for
> > the window manager with 8 desktops, each running a terminal.  Others are
> > running full blown Gnome with every possible Compiz Fusion plugin
> > imaginable.  Some use Evolution, while others opt for fetchmail and
> > mutt.  Are Linux users "hackers" in the sense that they solve problems
> > themselves, or are they just really lucky to have great systems?  What
> > is it really that makes a Linux user tick?
>
> > I look forward to your insights.
>
>
> > Paul
>
> > P.S. When I say linux user, I mean those who use it on their desktop (or
> > laptop) as an everyday system, not those who have some linux systems in
> > the server room, but use Windows or Mac for their private use.
> > _______________________________________________
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>
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>
_______________________________________________

I'm not sure what the discussion of Linux Users is about, but from my
perspective if you use Linux OS on a personal computer you share some
characteristics with others that make you some what unique.

   1. You probably would rather learn on your own than be taught.
   2. You've probably had a "not-too-good" experience using Windows.
   3. You probably seek out others who'd rather depend on their own
      solutions to computer needs than buy the "fool safe" version of
      software or hardware.
   4. You probably like gadgets, and if they are powered by Linux so
      much the better.
   5. You don't want to wade through "menus" of pap to do a simple task
      AND you don't want to be limited to one way of doing the tasks you
      undertake on computers.
   6. You don't want your operating system taken over by unknown updates
      and dependencies that you cannot predetermine.
   7. And you simply "hate" the idea that jack-booted software police
      can enter your business and steal you machines off your desktops,
      pronounce you only 80% compliant with software licenses, fine you
      and collect judgments and legal costs in an excess of $70,000 as
      they did from Ernie Ball Manufacturing.   This was accomplished
      under the direction and supervision of Microsoft lawyers and the
      County Sheriff in California, USA!

If you find that any of these characteristics apply to you, then you
might be a Linux User. 

Even with the animosity I have for Windows, I still have to use Windows
(or Apple OSX) for my VectorWorks drafting program for my business.  So
I do have Microsoft polluting the premises.  My budget does not permit
abandonning M$ in one lethal swoop.  But what I have found is that I
have built a very reliable system for all my administrative process, and
lan of 9 computers, a Smoothwall Linux firewall for my lan, and two
lines of very low cost VOIP telephone system that works for my
businesses.  All on Linux.  Which means it is reparable, operates on a
variety of older machines, allows on-lan storage through a manually
backed up system on a half-terrabyte of mirrored disks.   A no out-of
pocket expense.  Freedom is everything!  Linux provides freedom!!

Now, re: local support.   How can I expect local support for something
which I have not paid?  Well, I do.  I get it from the other Linux users
of Front Range PC Users Group (FRPCUG) a handful of which are Linux
Users.  We support all OSs and handle both software and hardware
problems at our 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM
"Shop Talk" sessions at the Fort Collins Senior Center.

So send your Grandmothers to us before you setup their computers, if
you'd like.  We're contemplating an "Open Office" based word processing
course there, too, for cheap ($15/course of 1 or 2 classes).

Linux is not a consumer operating system because it is not promoted as
such.  It should be the operating system of choice for all governments
in the USA, but probably will never achieve that... unless Linux users
continue to provide consumer and eventual public support!  Fort Collins
could be a leader in this movement and realize a significant savings...
has anyone ever suggested such a thing to the City Managers or City
Council?  Want to create a NCLUG/FRPCUG SIG to investigate the
possibility???

Jim Bragonier, Secretary and Webmaster of FRPCUG